Comments on: Please Help Me Judge This

By: kailoon

kailoon — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:23:55 +0000

Pete:
Ya, upfront payment is a MUST for me after this incident.

Wallace Rodrigues:
Haha, kinda good excuses But it is useful and handle it in better manner. Ya, the world out there is terrible. We need to protect ourself and learn to do it better.

By: Wallace Rodrigues

Wallace Rodrigues — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 20:18:04 +0000

Hi Kai Loon,

Yes, I’ve been there too. Believe me, when it comes to doing something for a friend involving your profession (meaning, the stuff that you do to pay your bills), you have two options: 1. keep the talk straight and charge whatever you charge for your work as usual or 2. say you are busy and can’t afford to do side works for no pay.

I’ve found out that the “extra time” I put off to do this kind of work for free ends up taking away my quality time, because I still have to work my normal share to make ends meet economically. Moreover, because your friend is actually delivering a paid solution on the other side, the client on the other end keeps asking for adjustments, making things even worst.

On my worst case (there were a few), I didn’t even have a chance to pull back. The guy hired someone else to rip the HTML and CSS I had uploaded to a demo server. I only did that (uploaded the unfinished work to a server) because this was a friend. Well, not anymore… At that point I had spend some 15 solid hours of work on it. It was a template for a shopping cart, a quite complex one.

It’s a harsh world out there, you got to play harsh and protect your kid’s milk… I’ll never take an unpaid job for a friend. That’s not selfishness, that’s survival.

By: au yong fong

au yong fong — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:59:47 +0000

Hi, it has been quite somtimes didnt drop by to your website. Sad to hear about your case. Do not feel sad for loosing this kind of friend.
I thought feeelancer normally will ask for some payment (certain percentage) after certain stage of works. After get paid, then only proceed to next stage.

Not much opinion to give. But ya, WTF.

By: Pete

Pete — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 02:54:39 +0000

1. I don’t do paid work for friends (yes, that’s why)
2. Upfront payment is a must (at least 35%, new clients sometimes up to 100%)
3. I’d go the way J Mehmett mentioned (and maybe get Y’s balls kicked)

Good luck for your future projects!

By: HURM

HURM — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:01:04 +0000

WTF….
HA3 SO SAD,
BUT YOUR WORK IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE EDITED VERSION.

By: kailoon

kailoon — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:42:49 +0000

J Mehmett :
Well, take it as a lesson Thanks!

wiehanne :
It is quite hard to know the person can be trust or not…Life is like this …

ikram :
I can’t really get what you mean …

By: ikram

ikram — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:53:35 +0000

hey man. I did see you at the webdesigner’s gathering at the curve right?

so next time you know, if someone wants quick design and little pay, you end up with someone like your ‘friend’ here lah.

congrats on getting on to smashingmagazine man. Good work deserves an applause

*clap clap*

By: wiehanne

wiehanne — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:32:39 +0000

I’ve heard this copy-cat case for don’t know how many times. My boyfriend ever experienced such a case, too. But it’s uni’s assignment. His friend’s reason was about the same with your friends; that he didn’t use exactly the same but change it (yeah, like not even 5% changes).

Sorry, but I have no solution. I myself will just see whether the person can be trust or not.

By: J Mehmett

J Mehmett — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:13:23 +0000

If I were you, I’d contact the site owner instead of the guy running it. I’d explain it as it was, and I’d send them the evidence including the exchanged emails and the files.

If they reject to negotiate, I have the rights to contact to their host, but if everything else becomes impossible, I’d shutdown their site.

By: kailoon

kailoon — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:46:21 +0000

Hmm… Seem to be a good idea

By: Aeres

Aeres — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:22:13 +0000

Not going to repeat what others have mentioned (wait, I do want to mention that some amount of deposit 30% – 50% is a must before starting anything unless the client has a spotless payment history, or you don’t really mind the money in the first place…)

Anyway, if you have any paperwork or evidence at all that you did that particular design for Y, fire off a cease-and-desist email to the end client. You don’t have to sue anyone, but Y will have some explanation to do.

By: kailoon

kailoon — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:17:15 +0000

Sansan :
Hi Sansan, notice that you are local designer. I think you may find it harder when dealing with local clients. Only few of them will agree to deposit 50% of the amount.

WakoGirl :
But some clients just don’t mind to have some ugly layout or design or works. They just prefer to save the money.

By: WakoGirl

WakoGirl — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:28:27 +0000

Hi, decided to get in and lurk around and found your post. I feel your pain, had my work stolen by a “friend”, honest there are no friends when they mix work with friendship. The “favors” and “helps” turns to plagiarism, copyright infringement, sorry the word but all brainless idiots who can’t program! My advice, same someone said before, ask half payment and do a contract – I do that and I do always stuff in flash/slideshows with programs the person will have difficulties for re-creating, including logos in several parts of each page, in case they modify will be a total mess.
You did the right ignoring him, that’s not a friend. You’ve talent and you’ll have sucess, he won’t.
Whish you all the best!!

By: sansan

sansan — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:46:43 +0000

I always faced the same problems like this. But what can i do, just because of i am a “FREELANCE DESIGNER”. From now onwards i try to get deposit first before i start work.

They stole your layout but at least your design is cleaner and looks better.

By: kailoon

kailoon — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:16:37 +0000

Jermayn :
It is good to have an agreement initially. But clients may not want it in that way. Two face … ya …

Timbe :
Yeah~ you felt my pain!!

By: Timbe

Timbe — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:56:10 +0000

I am very sorry to hear that! I can only imagine the blood boiling feeling of taking a glance at that work.

But at least the people that did it have no clue about taste! They really screwed it up. Almost like dragging Heidi Klum by a truck and then taking a picture of her. Yeah she is the same person, but man was she hotter before that happened. You know?

By: Jermayn

Jermayn — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:47:47 +0000

You probably cannot do anything. I would suggest do up a contract next time and make the client pay for half at least. This way you have the contract to say that you own the work and also some money….

It may be mean to do that to a ‘friend’ but its needed as so many people are two faced.

By: kailoon

kailoon — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:18:46 +0000

lut :
Since the beginning, it’s not the problem of money. It’s the appreciation and respect.

Tay Zar :
Yeah~ What I am so angry with is he used it without my permission. If he ask me before that, I will allow him to use it by paying the same amount we deal before.

Michael :
Man, this really help. I did say thank you to him. I even say sorry for my bad as he said so. No way for gift la

Myo Kyaw Htun :
Ya, I can sue him but I choose not to.

Mark :
I have did what you say. I did make it clear that I only responsible on which part because I quote him based on that. But I didn’t make it black and white. Sometimes, freelancers just too lazy to have signed agreements or black and white thing. I would take this advice and try to do it in a better way. Thanks!

By: Mark

Mark — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:51:45 +0000

I know you’re probably going to learn from this event, but if you want to save your ass in the future, there are a few things you can do for all engagements, no matter how small they are.

Create a small and simple agreement with a list of in-scope and out-of-scope tasks. That way, you can clearly write down what you are responsible for (in-scope) and what they might come back at you later do do, but aren’t responsible for (out-of-scope). Make the person sign this agreement so it’s binding. Also, you should make a copy of your work, seal it, and mail it to yourself. The seal and postage date will verify in court that it is your work. Good luck in the future.

By: Myo Kyaw Htun

Myo Kyaw Htun — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:24:39 +0000

I also faced the same problems like you before. As for me, I thought that these was experiences. Just ignore it and stay away from him from now on if you could prove that it is your real hard-work.

I agreed with Susan …

By the way, design like articles is protected by copyright and you could sue that â€œfriendâ€ if you could prove, that it is your work with mail dates when you sent the work to him.